March 16th, 19:00 GMT: General Nirtox

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March 16th, 19:00 GMT: General Nirtox

Post by tgjensen » Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:59 am

This is a target that neither side ever managed to kill, and that I've never personally attempted to raid with froobs. Now that we've settled in a bit, I think it's time to give it a shot!

Therefore, we will raid General Nirtox on Saturday, March 16th at 7:00 PM GMT!

From what I understand, the cause of all the previous failures is Nirtox's tendency to clear her aggro list and heal up once her target is warped away. No telling if this will work, but what I want to attempt is to have four Enforcers tanking (ie, mongoing) simultaneously with two Engineers to continually warp them back. Hopefully the good General will be kept busy and non-buggy that way.
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Re: March 16th, 19:00 GMT: General Nirtox

Post by Matammyr » Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:43 pm

Why don't we just drag her to the warp point?

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Re: March 16th, 19:00 GMT: General Nirtox

Post by EDTA » Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:51 pm

Matammyr wrote:Why don't we just drag her to the warp point?

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We've tried that and it didn't work out. Nirtox warps back to his/her spawn area once you get too far away from it, I believe. We tried the approach with a bunch of tanks and engi's, but we only got Paskalaari and a soldier as tanks that raid. Paskalaari ended up kiting Nirtox around all the time without the major part of the raidforce being able to do a lot. I'm not entirely sure why he was kiting all the time, but I believe standing still was just too deadly. The kiting did seem to avoid Nirtox' warping as well.
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Re: March 16th, 19:00 GMT: General Nirtox

Post by steropes » Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:20 pm

Yeah, I believe it was a couple of years ago now they fixed the pathing so you couldn't pull far away.

I'm definitely up for this though, so with Mata that's 2 enfo's already (or I can bring my doc instead if preferred).

EDTA, by too deadly to stand around do you mean the incoming damage was too much for the docs to handle healing Paska? or just that Paska would be warped away and then it was deadly for everybody else due to not being able to grab agro with another toon quickly?

I'm just trying to get an idea of whether incoming damage is a major issue or if it's mainly the warping and keeping agro to overcome; some of Nirtox's nano attacks look pretty nasty, if she's going to be spamming the aoe's it could be interesting trying to keep all 4 enfos alive...
Kiting would mean a lot less nano attacks incoming so possibly that is why Paska was doing so?

This is definitely going to be a fun raid and a good test of team work!
:D

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Re: March 16th, 19:00 GMT: General Nirtox

Post by EDTA » Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:25 pm

What I meant is that it might have been that he tried standing still, took a hit for a lot of damage that wasn't healed right away and he figured he needed to stay running. The thing is, I don't remember very well and I'm not I ever have known why he kept running. There might have been adds too.

Some topics about our experiences and ideas about Nirtox on the tlfiveplus forums:
- http://tlfiveplus.com/index.php?topic=192.0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- http://tlfiveplus.com/index.php?topic=214.0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: March 16th, 19:00 GMT: General Nirtox

Post by steropes » Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:44 pm

Cheers for the links EDTA, looks like it's going to be a pretty flexible plan of attack then :wink:

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Re: March 16th, 19:00 GMT: General Nirtox

Post by tgjensen » Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:02 am

That is exactly the kind of information I've been looking for. Great work you guys.

It is pretty hard to formulate a battle plan when success seems to depend on whether or not Nirtox bugs out on you, but as stated in the first post I'm banking on keeping her stationary and occupied with four Enforcers. The few times I have seen her in action it seems she doesn't bug out unless she's running around, chasing doctors and whatnot.

In that light, we should probably be careful not to pull aggro away from the Enforcers. This is complicated both by the stuns - the 5 second AoE one should be palatable, whereas for the 11s single stun I suppose we will have to count on another Enforcer to take over - but especially by the -315 nanoskills drain. Enforcers will have to have a second Mongo ready on their hotbar (and remember to cancel the Mongo buff!), and ideally also be spamming a jealousy augmented Aggression Modifier. Top DDers will probably want to hold back a bit if we go this route.
Alternatively, we can move the Engineers out of the Enforcer team and replace them with a Trader, if team wrangles and mocham's is enough to let the tanks cast their best mongo. Gnome and I tested this some time back, and team wrangle should have more than enough range, like 50m, to keep the Trader nice and safe. In that scenario the raid leader will have to be on his toes and switch Enforcers back and forth to the Engineer team for warping.
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Re: March 16th, 19:00 GMT: General Nirtox

Post by Rain » Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:23 am

..or we go with Plan B and manage to pull Nirtox to that dyna camp she is warping people to.
Possible according to the linked threads. Im kind asurprised it works, but I'd definitly want to test that out first to make the engi's life somewhat easier.
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Re: March 16th, 19:00 GMT: General Nirtox

Post by Lusto » Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:15 am

Nirtox doesn't like to run, so plan B does not work. We tried it on Froob200 but there had been a change that broke it like one month before our raid. We did raid Nirtox once for like three hours but failed to kill. Only problem was the warping, tanking and healing was well under control.

I don't have logs from the Nirtox fight but I believe he is similar to other DB Gens. Their damage is divided like this (parsed from all of my logs):

General Vivyan, dmg: 5767057 hits: 5106
chemical 36% of damage with 581 hits of 1657-4221 average 3590
chemical (crit) 0% of damage with 4 hits of 6176-9911 average 7110
energy 47% of damage with 1758 hits of 86-4161 average 1532
energy (crit) 0% of damage with 4 hits of 1096-2768 average 1514
melee 3% of damage with 540 hits of 6-695 average 324
melee (crit) 0% of damage with 3 hits of 852-852 average 852
melee (nano) 13% of damage with 2216 hits of 1-400 average 350

General Kronillis, dmg: 11372511 hits: 28077
chemical 29% of damage with 794 hits of 1896-6155 average 4148
chemical (crit) 0% of damage with 8 hits of 6322-7395 average 6889
energy 35% of damage with 2384 hits of 75-4548 average 1651
energy (crit) 1% of damage with 42 hits of 992-3171 average 2251
melee 3% of damage with 769 hits of 15-829 average 393
melee (crit) 0% of damage with 18 hits of 756-1009 average 857
reflect shield 32% of damage with 24062 hits of 3-200 average 153

So you can see how about 30% of damage comes from slow but huge chemical attacks. Especially dangerous are chemical crits that cause difficult panic moment for docs when it lands. Assuming that Nirtox follows similar pattern then I would strongly advice for crit reduction stuff and chemical reflects. Energy is bigger amount of damage but as it is steady flow it is easier to outheal.

Edit: Docs should not tempt fate and let tank go much below 10k hp. The damage flow is not reliable here due to rare chem crits.
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Re: March 16th, 19:00 GMT: General Nirtox

Post by Tyranii » Tue Mar 05, 2013 5:19 pm

I should be there - I'll brush the dust off Blessedbrawl and be ready to go! :D
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Re: March 16th, 19:00 GMT: General Nirtox

Post by Matammyr » Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:07 pm

How long ago did you try the pulling technique? Maybe it has become viable since then because of a mechanics change?

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Re: March 16th, 19:00 GMT: General Nirtox

Post by Tenchii » Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:10 pm

I'll most likely miss this great event due to work. :x I took the chance and did a bit of testing thou.

1.) When assisting a Nirtox-attempt i played my melee-doc. I can happily report that "wakeupcall" works against the AoE-Stun.

2.) I can happily report that Nirtox does only mediocre AoE dmg after Nanite Enhanced Nano Shutdown lands. Even a nanomage melee-doc was easily able to survive the AoE-chain by healkits without selfhealing. I dont know if normal NSD will do the trick thou, as it is alot harder to land (160% vs 100% NR) and creates alot less skill-loss (-2000 vs -3000).

3.) Getting Aggro from DD seems to be a non-issue. Enfos can build up tons of aggro in the startphase of the fight when Tanks still kite and DD isnt allowed to attack anyways.
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Re: March 16th, 19:00 GMT: General Nirtox

Post by Matammyr » Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:59 pm

Just to make sure, this is 3 p.m. EST?

I am very bad at time conversion, as other tlfiveplus members can attest to.

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Re: March 16th, 19:00 GMT: General Nirtox

Post by tgjensen » Sat Mar 16, 2013 2:02 am

To find out when the event is in your timezone please check this link.
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Re: March 16th, 19:00 GMT: General Nirtox

Post by idef » Sat Mar 16, 2013 2:23 pm

Damage from Vivyan

Image
petstotaldamagedamage/mindamage/activeminleechfactor
1Blutblume34711833646.3375261.11
2Carrion25881325127.5266811.06
3Garida321349920694.6223161.07
4Corpus120172719553.5215751.1
5Float19849419333.8291181.5
6Lieut18853818304.7206051.12
7Techwiza18073517547.1181331.03
8Aintm17969017361.3173330.99
9Rszmit17644917355.6190751.09
10Steropes15776915317.4168131.09
11Badhorse215722415239.8164051.07
12Digsagent15427615002.5178691.19
13Jensenberg114526614265.1151311.06
14Neiti14088013611.6153401.12
15Trymeout12383111964.3127441.06
16Leothorn11565411375.8190111.67
17Legendengy110879610648.9116981.09
18Matammyr10648010371.4113881.09
19Norroy1028389936.03113211.13
20Drsheffsam1007869785.04147851.51
21Lyzzard976449480104991.1
22Nanomalie670066494.92101521.56
23Naoki1652856328.196241.52
24Edin123649106301.9472391.14
25Thornee620356042.3770621.16
26Baldoz442134334.654801.26
27Hermitad435214273.7485892
28Gruenberg416654118.4560821.47
29Shisato107951921.9543182.24
30Kirabo14904063.63111752.74
31Hillopurkki1717.542024
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