Why don't people play crats?

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Why don't people play crats?

Post by Hxer » Fri May 16, 2008 1:52 pm

I have met two crats in-game so far in this round of playing (30ish hours a week the last 2-3 weeks on Rimor.). One of them is the most gimped character I have seen so far. I earn my money by selling nanos and I have only sold 1 crat nano so far (top pet to the said gimped crat).

Why don't people play crats?

Are there more crats in SL or is this profession competing with shade in being the least popular profession at the moment?
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Post by Rain » Fri May 16, 2008 2:03 pm

Crats arent that easy to play if you want to play them good (like about every prof) and if you told this "gimp" crat you met what you think about him, this wont encourage him to continue playing his crat.

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Post by Hxer » Fri May 16, 2008 2:09 pm

Ok when you are wearing armor and imps below your level, even your pet is below your level, you don't nuke, you don't fire a weapon, you don't calm - all you do is direct the pretty lowbeish pet at the mob - doing maybe 1/10 as much damage as you should - - well, you find the adjectives :p My suggestion is gimp, but more can probably be added.

But he seems to have improved somewhat since the first time I met him. Still using ql100 shop imps in his 130ies, but now with atleast a briefcase and some nice Miy armor.

Don't know if he has started calming though.
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Post by jato » Fri May 16, 2008 2:27 pm

we are around, just busy with paperwork and such :P

i think one of the main reasons is that for the first 20 or so levels 'crats suck. Hard. which puts people off playing them, but they are one of the least played professions if i remember correctly, non xp-pole 'crats even less.
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Post by Bodhii » Fri May 16, 2008 3:49 pm

A Bureaucrat is actually my next project, mostly because it seems like a lot of juggling and paying attention. I kind of felt that I needed to learn more about the game before I attempted to play one -- managing just one character seemed easier than three pets and yourself, plus crowd control duties.

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Post by BigMx » Fri May 16, 2008 4:13 pm

I don't know what it is but everytime I try to play my crat I end up just logging off and playing another toon. I can barely level on my crat...just seems like an uninteresting profession....but I think if I can just get past say level 30, I'd probably enjoy crat more...so far it's just difficult to really like the crat profession.

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Post by hahnsoo » Fri May 16, 2008 9:21 pm

I think the Crat profession caters to a particular gaming personality type. I enjoy playing crats, but I enjoy my trader more (They do have similar skillsets and "busy factor"). They are a sort of "niche" character that enjoys having multiple minions and doing crowd control, something which appeals to a smaller set of players.
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Post by Hxer » Fri May 16, 2008 9:56 pm

One thing is that traders are probably superior to crats crowd-control-wise until the crat can do the top RK calm contemplation, since traders can do calms 2x their level with the use of drains. The attack skill and resist on trader and crat calms are not scaled differently.

As a trader I could calm mort borgs around level 80-90, from when I first got there. I somewhat doubt a crat would be able to do that as reliably as I could, looking at the crat calms.
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Post by Daylin » Sat May 17, 2008 3:32 am

Why don't people play crats?
Long post to follow, but I feel it tells the whole story...

I couldn't tell you without speculation/guessing as to why you don't see more of them around. I personally adore the crat profession, I believe it comes down to the control factor they have which appeals to me. I know playing a crat takes more attention to play than say a purely DD profession. Playing one does indeed as Hansoo put it, have a "busy factor". While I said it is indeed harder to play, it's not THAT much harder once you get used to it, and setup your hotkey banks properly to make your job easier.

Hotkey banks I feel are key to how hard, or easy you make it on yourself, and everyone will be different, and will need to decide on how they want to set that up for themselves depending on how they play. I took leave of playing the crat profession once, feeling my reaction speed wasn't up to par to play this profession, until of course I figured out how much simpler life could be if I adjusted my hotkeys, then I was back into full swing playing my crat.

Crowd control was never really an issue @ Mort borgs when I played there on my Trox crat. I got quite a number of praises for the timely calms used to make the center ruins safe. Despite the horrid "Level resist check" on crat calms around that level, I was quite often enough able to land my calms on first try. Ofc, your always not so lucky but a second cast always ensured a pacified borg for me. I remember playing there, and calming from level 77 onwards, on said crat.

With that said above, implants, gear, setup all plays a part in it all. So not everyone will come away with the same experiance. Keeping yourself up to date on gear, and nano's will make your experiance that much better. Slacking in that department often enough leaves you in a mess, not being able to do what your supposed to do. Moreso I would say on this kind of support profession, as a missed calm, snare will be more detrimental than someone slacking on DD in a group with suboptimal equiptment. But again, that goes with any profession.

For anyone looking to play a crat, just know ahead of time this isn't a tab/Q/AFK wait till next mob profession. You will need to keep an eye on the battle at hand, and be ready to intercept and react to things outside of main combat. It may seem overwhelming at first, but you get used to it, and eventually it's just status quo. Playing in a group, I usually don't have time to be as active in chat as say when I am playing my fixer.

Between trying to command your pets, (as I am sure anyone who has played a pet profession knows, they sometimes just wont listen, will get stuck, or decide even after you told them to /follow that they want to attack something, or just running off in a random direction only to be out of range for them to hear your commands ect...) checking status on charm time remaining, refilling your nano, keeping an eye out for potential adds, having to re-calm a mob someone just woke up on accident for the 3rd time :roll: also recasting buffs on pet, and just general assisting in combat via your own attacks / nukes, it just doesn't leave much time to chat.

But even with all that said... The profession is just damn fun to play. You have great DD (if you utilize your full toolset), can save the day with your crowd control abilities (calms, snares, roots, fears), provide a nice bonus to your groups experiance mod, provide a wonderful bonus to your groups AAO/AAD, lower the mobs crit chance on your group via aura's, de-root, de-snare your allies, stun nano's, and sometimes using your pet/pets as a backup tank should your main tank go down in battle. All these things makes playing this profession rewarding and fun to play in game.

All of these things are just as a froob, with expansions your abilites are even moreso, you can also add in initiative debuffing mobs if you lack a doctor, have nice stun procs via research to shut a mobs attacking ability down. Have passive perks to further enhance our already great bonus on AAO/AAD, even more xp buffing in aura form, and the ability to greatly recover someone experiance pool by 320% if they are in group with you, and 50% if they are not, even more if you spend more than 1 perk into the line.

All in all, it is a nice profession providing you are willing to spend the time required to getting used to playing, and optimize your reaction time. Soloing, crats are wonderful if you want to token grind in missions. Robot pet + 2 charms, and yourself, and you find yourself just trying to keep up with the killing spree that ensues. Room with multiple mobs? No problem, toss a calm/snare, and move on to the next victim. This post is already long in the tooth, so I will wrap it up here. Want more info on crats, just read up on the other posts here in the crat section, of head over to the AO offcial forums.
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Post by Vabla » Sat May 17, 2008 3:59 am

tl;dr :P

I play a crat. Currently lvl 51 with QL 20 implants, full medsuit, lvl 41 bot, no calms, no snares, no roots, lowest charm, selfed outdated electronums. Don't you just LOVE shadowlands?
Don't get me wrong though. It's just to level pas that part where your twinked on gear becomes outdated in half an hour.


P.S. Sometimes being a gimp is way more fun than being a twink.
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Re: Why don't people play crats?

Post by Ferengi » Sun May 18, 2008 5:59 pm

Hxer wrote:Why don't people play crats?
They are noted as 'Hard' at toon creation time, so beyond the requirements that Hahnsoo mentions are being rich enough and have enough support toons/orgmates to properly make a crat. By the time many people try crats, they are too tuned into the kill-anything-that-moves style that basically they fubar themselves. Seeing mobs as weapons is a different thinking style.

Many people make little effort to twink out a toon, a big mistake on a crat. You can find comments about using store-bought ql125 imps at lvl 80 for instance, instead of putting in customs at lvl 55. That leads to the comments about 'being too hard to play' and people giving up. When you do go to the effort of twinking, you get the Daylin results.

So rich, well-supported, and bored with BLAM-BLAM style just doesn't happen in many players. Toss in a ton of misinformation floating around, and it's no surprise that crats are the least played.
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Post by zendadaist » Mon May 19, 2008 12:54 am

The early levels of a crat do suck. You feel like a bottom-of-the-barrel mutated hybrid of an engineer and NT. It's hard to get going and in order to really shine and start to enjoy the prof, you have to get to grips with it's wide toolset: charms, calms, nukes, debuffs, the gimpy bot etc. It's not all about charging in headfirst on every mob you see, and if you try that style of play, as you might an adventurer or soldier, then you'll die and will feel gimped.

The XP-totem aspect is a double edged sword as it means you can level up faster which can often mean sub-par gear because you haven't built up the money and actual play experience. The Crat in the OPs example seems like s/he is basically trying to play it like a combat-focused engineer which won't get it very far.

My 'Crat playing experience is limited, but once out of the early levels rut it gets to be a lot of fun. If played right Crats can become truly awesome DD and PvPers especially at 220. It's hard and definitely not for everyone (the character description might put people off, thinking it's like playing some sort of office paper-pusher which really pales when put next to the descriptions of the others).

It's a prof better suited to be an alt or later main once the player has got to grips with the concepts of crowd control and has some resources under their belt to pimp it out with.
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Post by Sferykal » Mon May 19, 2008 2:57 am

Back when I was playing more I ended up spending some time with such "cases" after missions, most soaked up too much XP in a too short time while their knowledge of the game lagged behind.

Professions like 'crats are prone to this, because you should have an idea what you can do, and without someone showing you the ropes you will have to visit forums or pages like aomainframe/auno. Lacking all this info results in players who are ... just there 8) Teach them to fish.

Why not more players go with 'crat: No idea, nor do I care :P The most fun I had when I could entertain others with cool things or just have the luck to save the day in a total mess (mass calming @ 'borgs ftw!). Maybe such stunts get one or the other thinking about making a 'crat themselfs. Pushing the limits on my 'crat is fun, a walk on the edge, but also much more exhausting compared to my soldier, for example.

And I can't remember having problems with cyborg calming on my 'crat. Charming, yes, but that's an entirely different problem. I do use deinit if I have the time for it (-250, although I could get a second one, for -500 total then). It's not much, but better than nothing, and it stacks with doc deinit.
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Post by Tarradax » Sun May 25, 2008 5:41 am

I gave up on my crat at 175, I think. Not because of gimpness mind you, but because it's been at least 20 levels where I was in top-form and will have to grind 25 more levels without any new toys that are worth a damn. LE just came out and I noted that to stay competitive I'll have to entirely rework my weapons and gear, so that was also a contributing factor.

I LOVED the first 5 TLs though. Playing a crat after playing a fixer was probably the most relaxing experience ever - I came to it well-prepared though (Something that seems most players don't do) with top notch gear and all my nanos in a few packs. Learned the prof while teaming with a guy who had a late-TL5 crat and would refuse all kite team invites, we went to some mishes and did some hecklerbating together and I was totally :shock: . The guy knew his stuff, even passed me down some rare symbs that he outgrew.

I actually almost regret deleting my crat nowadays, I miss that gameplay style. Might even reroll some day soon, make a couple changes to the gear and see how it works. New expansions have some promise in terms of keeping a crat occupied.
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Why dont people play crats

Post by byrontip » Mon May 13, 2019 8:45 pm

People dont want to gish because they want to play any one of the numerous fantasy archetypes that dont involve casting spells, in a game that explicitly claims to provide those fantasy archetypes. That said archetypes have a tendency to suck is a failing of the game, not the players who like the archetypes.

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