Totw sucks now.

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Castagere
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Totw sucks now.

Post by Castagere » Thu Jul 26, 2012 2:20 am

I remember going to this place back when i played and it was fun. You could get on a team really quick and get some good low lvl items. Now i would tell newbies to just stay away from this place. When ever i go there no one is outside looking for teams. But when you go inside you run into alot of lvl 60 players that most log out in the place. These people are gear whores that need to get every boss drop in the place. I teamed up with some of these guys and they ninja looted everything and quit the team without a word. And from what i'm hearing all the dungeons are like this now. You need to be in a guild if you want to go to these places.

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Re: Totw sucks now.

Post by Llie » Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:01 am

Funny. Are you sure you've been playing the same game as I have? The following is a copy of a thread entitled "Everything I needed to know, I learned in ToTW" that I started on my Org's forum:
So much wisdom so little time. Let's begin.

Objective

Let's be perfectly clear. We all know what this game is about. It's about you. You. You. You. Your leveling, your loot, your survival is first and foremost above all else. This is the first and most important thing to learn, as it is the basis of all other lessons of ToTW.

Conduct

It is important to be as rude as possible at all times. Showing any common courtesy whatsoever is a sign of weakness. In order to show that you are not a n00b and are worthy of being teamed with you must openly ridicule others and point out other peoples gimpiness.

In order to establish your "cred" you must OD everyone whenever possible. You must try to kill steal whenever possible so as to show others that you have ODed them. This is particularly important in areas where people are camping some boss for some specific drop, because clearly they are gimp since they are still sitting around trying to get something.

Teaming

The proper way to team with others is to arrive where people are congregated and immediately ninja invite one of every profession within your level range, except for Engineers, until you have a full team. Do not speak to anyone before inviting, as that would be courteous, and a sure sign that you are a n00b and weak. Once you have your team, immediately head off. Everyone should be buffed and ready to go. If anyone says anything or asks for time to buff, they are a n00b and should be immediately kicked.

The only time it is appropriate to speak is if everyone else is already in teams and you are looking for a team. At this point, it is acceptable behavior to beg everyone in your level range to invite you and to jump up and down in front of them to make sure they can see who is asking.

Trains

Returning to our first rule, since this game is all about you, it is perfectly acceptable to train whatever boss and whatever else you happen to cross as you run past, because your survival is foremost. Therefore, if it means training Azzy, Doorkeeper Gartua, GoT and three Eternal Sentinels all the way to the entrance of ToTW, then so be it, because remember, it's all about you not losing any XP.

Cultists are a hassle. Fighting them on your way into ToTW is a waste of your precious time; therefore, you should always train to DoT and immediately duck into one of the doorways to the bosses. Do not, under any circumstances, deal with the cultists. They are grey to you for a reason. They are for n00bs to deal with. If they can't then they are gimp, and deserve to be sent to reclaim to sit and meditate on how to deal with trains.

Mobs and Bosses

Feel free to attack anything or everything you want to in ToTW. Remember, you can always train and run away. Set your pets on hunt, buff pets with invasive auras, mongo everywhere, and AoE nuke. Anyone that can't handle adds shouldn't be in ToTW. This is where the big boys play.

Looting

Grab everything immediately. Even if you didn't kill it. You must not let anything go to waste.

AFK

Whenever possible, set follow on team leader and go AFK. Why should you worry about anything when everyone else is here to level and heal you? The person who should go AFK most often is the one who had to ask to be on team. This is to punish others for not ninja inviting you. The most appropriate time to AFK is right before entering boss rooms. It's scary in there. No need to stress you out. Leave it to your team. That's what they're there for.

Professions

If you are an Engineer, you are expected to have twinked on a warbot or a slayerdroid. Since there are no drops for the Engineer profession in ToTW, there is no good reason for you to be in ToTW. You have no purpose in a team, and since you have your warbot or slayerdroid, you should be able to solo all bosses in ToTW. As such your sole purpose is to provide ToTW service to others. If you cannot solo Lien for DMs then you are gimp, and people will openly tell you so.

If you are an Enforcer, you are indestructible and as such you should feel free to tromp around ToTW and train with impunity. It is your god-given right. Everyone expects you to. If you do not, you will lose your membership to the Rubi-Ka Enforcer's club. Feel free to attack anything and Mongo to your hearts content. If you cannot kill a boss, for instance, Khalum, then refer to what you learned about training. This is a particularly important for an Enforcer, because not only is this game all about you, it is also your god-given right as an Enforcer to train.

If you are a Martial Artist, be aware that you are expected to tank. Oh, and you're also expected to deal damage. Oh, and you're expected to heal. Yeah. That's it. That's all you have to do.

If you are a Doctor, expect to be ninja invited to team by every single person standing around. At the same time. Five hundred times. Until you give in an join a team. At which point you will be held responsible for the lives of everyone in your team. If anyone dies, it will be your fault, and everyone will tell you so.
The only time I've ever had any fun in ToTW is when some new member or alt in my org needed something from ToTW and we organized an org team to go into ToTW. Everyone would either log their ToTW twink or an alt that needed something from ToTW.

ToTW is a breeding ground for the worst possible behavior for AO. In Subs, most people still running around there are noobs. Although they can be clueless, they are usually humbled by the fact that they are noob gimps and tend to be polite, friendly, and courteous. ToTW is the place people first start to think they know what they're doing, but in fact, most people don't know anything about their profession, pulling, teaming, etc.. at this point. As a result you get the observed behavior. It has been like this in ToTW as long as I've played AO except there aren't crowds of people standing outside the entrance anymore.

I've done a few dungeon crawls lately. Foreman's still has a few people. Behavior is generally not as bad as ToTW. Crypt of Home is always completely empty -- not even people camping Cenobite Shadows for Panther/Howlet/Chirops. Mantis/Smuggler's Den has recently become the new "popular" dungeon due to the Bor shortcut. Now everyone in the level range is jumping in there with friends and orgmates to do the elite daily mission. IS is and has always been empty except for org runs because the fact that level 125 characters can enter IS is a farce. That place stomps on anything less than a level 205 + expansions toon.

As for your last statement: You need to be in a semi-active guild if you want to have fun in AO. The days of just wandering around and getting into teams left and right are gone.

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Re: Totw sucks now.

Post by Bowgie » Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:26 am

"As for your last statement: You need to be in a semi-active guild if you want to have fun in AO. The days of just wandering around and getting into teams left and right are gone."

And that is exactly the problem with AO now!

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Re: Totw sucks now.

Post by bronz » Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:40 pm

While it is true that there are a lot of lvl 60 players in ToTW, I disagree that they “gear whores that need to get every boss drop in the place”. In fact, most things of interest in the temple are NoDrop, which basically means they don’t need it at all. After all, what does a player really need in ToTW that can’t be garbage picked? The ONLY things that come to mind are Mem loop/DMs, GTA, frozen tear, Doc book, Ring of mem loss, and keeper’s vitality.

Everything else can just be garbage picked. Need Touch of the gripper? It’s on Yoda’s corpse... so are Rockcrusher Gauntlets, just sitting there. Need a Notum Ring? An Exarch Robe? A lesser ring (like eternal night, etc) just pick them off dead mobs. Need barrow strength/withered flesh, you may have to wait, but they are NoDrop AND Unique, so those lvl 60s can’t take them even if they wanted. Want Lam/Woe? Just stand around and loot Lein’s corpse after the team takes their DMs.

As to the number of players, it won’t be an issue at all. In fact, the number of players in ToTW is basically controlled by you. Walk inside ToTW and type /list, then check the GS. Walk out and re-enter another GS if you want more (or less) players. Personally when camping for something like GTA/KV/tear I will just go in during peek times and look for a high # GS and then log out w/ twink and alt. In a few hours I’ll log them back in and the majority of times I find I’m the only one in the whole place... free to kill as I like. I even have a macro on my totw twink for: /tell helpbot set timers 20:00 (or whatever the actual syntax is) for both GoT and the Doorkeeper. Then I just kill, kill and go onto some other task for twenty mins. It’s pretty easy when you have no competition.

As for AO becoming a playerless wasteland, I somehow think that doubling the # of players w/ the server merge will fix things up nicely. Personally, while everyone complains, I sorta like less players. If I need an advanced scent sensor or some other drop, I just go grab it... I do remember the days of not ever seeing the mob in question, just a crowd of people camping its spawn spot. And THAT really sucked.... I'm happy with less competition.

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Re: Totw sucks now.

Post by Castagere » Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:20 am

So if your lvl 60 isn't it time to move on? I was there last night and i saw four groups. All of them were lvl 60 with one low lvl player and they were all in the same guilds. So 4 different guilds all lvl 60 with one low lvl player or someones alt. One of the low lvl's was as low as 21. And they would not add me to their groups. So what you have is an instance being controlled by guilds. They were looting everything that dropped.

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Re: Totw sucks now.

Post by Derenbruder » Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:47 am

@ Castagere
Is that a meaning of a oneday visit in totw????

I'm an active ao-player and doing alot runs through totw... Sure, some suckers grap everything they can get.. But thats a less number of players.
The most twinks are after rods, docbook, gta...

Are u sure u playing AO? Sounds like WoW.. *kidding off* :D

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Re: Totw sucks now.

Post by Llie » Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:49 am

Castagere wrote:So if your lvl 60 isn't it time to move on? I was there last night and i saw four groups. All of them were lvl 60 with one low lvl player and they were all in the same guilds. So 4 different guilds all lvl 60 with one low lvl player or someones alt. One of the low lvl's was as low as 21. And they would not add me to their groups. So what you have is an instance being controlled by guilds. They were looting everything that dropped.
I hate to confess, the above team is indeed the most common sight, as this is precisely what my org tends to do. Some new recruit or alt says in org chat, I'm new and I need ToTW stuff. We all say, "sure!" and log ToTW twinks. Stomp. Stomp. Stomp. If we have room in our team we might invite a random stranger along, but we usually tell them "We are doing a run for XYZ player, please let him/her loot first."

By "they were looting everything that dropped", you probably meant the level 21 toon was looting everything. And this goes back to my first post about the behavior of noobs in ToTW. Most of the time the noob that we're taking through ToTW has no idea what they want or need, but all they know is that there's goodies in ToTW. Six Exarch robes, Nematet's Eye, Temporal Chalice, and Book of the Immortal, and Stygy even though the noob is a crat? Sure. We don't care, our level 60's are done, and we're doing a favor for an org mate.

The only useful thing one might reliably loot off a corpse is a GCB off GoT. People collect Exarch Robes for IS passes (I do anyways -- getting sent to reclaim when trying to get perma-passes in IS is too common to not have extra temp passes). GTA isn't even that great of a tank armor. Generally, Exarch is equal or better (though I confess having camped GoT for 2 weeks on an enfo to get it just because I wanted my enfo to wear it.)

Oh, and FC nerfed the ability to try to get into a different instance. We (our org) used to use that trick all the time, try to get our team into a "fresh" GS. Now you can run in / out of ToTW as many times as you want, unless there are more than about 16 people inside, you will always land back in the same instance. If it so happens that the most people are in GS2, then every new person that enters ToTW will land in GS2 until it's too full. They did that because they thought that was the best way to fix the problem that nobody teams in ToTW anymore.

Seriously, if you want something from ToTW and you're not in a org to help you get it, maybe Aofroobs can do a ToTW dungeon crawl for you. We can be the pack of level 60s jerks that kills and loots everything. AOFroob bot has died. I'm not sure how to organize this. What server, time zone, and times of day in GMT do you usually play?

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Re: Totw sucks now.

Post by Castagere » Sat Jul 28, 2012 11:26 am

Well i had decided that i wasn't going back there again. But i ran into some unguilded players around my lvl(50's) and we did a team mission together. We all had a great time and no one died. So we went to totw together as a team and cleaned up in there. We took our time and had a blast. They were all older players from the old days like i am. We hit every room in the place. Funny thing though, I saw the same lvl 60's from those guilds still in there. We just ignored them. We all got the loot we wanted along with a couple of lvl's. I have some new friends on my list now. We decided to end out visit by taking on Uldesh the frozen. We got him down but his next spawn killed one of us. The last spawn put an end to us though and we laughed about it the whole time. That night really reminded me of the old days of Rubi Ka. Really great time.

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Re: Totw sucks now.

Post by Treeslayer » Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:52 pm

I LOVE reading this stuff :D
I don't always do ToTW, but when I do – I live there.
Be careful my friend :laughing3:

ToTW is the ultimate Libertarian home room and decent (depends on ones definition) player nightmare. From guilds/orgs to double logged twinks loot can sometimes be a problem.
Ninjas?? Yeah
I generally double log because my toons are not tuff enough to take Lien solo. I have helped hundreds (true) of people in there. I have also witnessed some of the worst behavior possible in a game such as this. Last night I tanked a fixer/enforcer for these two guys (lvl 40ish). One an MP with nice heal pet. We did a few Legionaries so I could see how these guys were. Seemed OK.
Lien popped and the heal pet went to them- standing back around the corner dragging two new Legionaries into the fight! My two guys did not survive. Kind of got to me. I thanked them for being selfish (as Lien died with me and they got the drops) un-teamed them and wrote their names into my ever growing list of “avoid.”

ToTW is great for all kinds of learning experiences. The two guys above hopefully will learn that reclaim is better than dishonor.
Try to help a n00b- convince them to get SL and Lost Eden!

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Re: Totw sucks now.

Post by Castagere » Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:15 am

Thanks for the post Treeslayer. As for me I'm done with that place. Got what i needed and time to move on. But i still say for a newcomer to the game having to go there really leaves a bad impression about the game. I think I'm all done with dungeons in this game. Funny thing is you really don't need anything in those places to play the game and have fun. I wish they never added these places. Its not just totw's that's bad they all are. You want to find the ahole players in this game go to a dungeon. As for me my luck took a big turn around. I ran into someone that was around off and on since 2001. He just became a new father and was quitting game for good. He sold everything all his toons had and reading my post here found me and gave me all the credits. I'm probably the riches lvl 50 on my server now. So between mission runs and blitzing i will never not have what i need.

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Re: Totw sucks now.

Post by Llie » Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:18 pm

Well, don't count out drops from dungeons. As a froob, every one of those unique items counts.

Things that I would think are "not to miss" items include aside from Subway and ToTW:

Steps of Madness:
* Dark Dreams
* Dream Mesh Circuit
* Neleb's Nightmare Battlerod
* Fractured Nightmare +4 int/psy rings
* Neleb's Robe

Cyborg Barracks:
* Hellfury and Hellspinner assault rifles -- not very spectacular as is, but get the upgrades from EFP uniques and they are end-game froob soldier weapons.

Foreman's/Biomare:
* Assault class tank armor (for the reflect shield)
* scopes from T.I.M. (can be got off Dustbrigade Generals, but so much easier to get from T.I.M)
* Collar of Amplification (for quest-line -- often the swap-in item that makes the difference in casting end-game nanos)
* Customized Desert Reet are good pistols
* Corroded Ring off of Tri-Plumbo which can be worn with Grid Armor
* Crat suits and Augmented Bow-Tie off the Director

Mantis Den (lower level part):
* Various profession specific multi-slot/HUD items which provide actually useful to your profession buffs

Smuggler's Den:
* De Corona MK-II armor was some of the best froobable at that QL
* Tattoos from the Clawfinger Forefather

Mantis Den (higher level part):
* Mantis Eggs - to be made into VTEs
* Queen Blade which can also be enhanced using an item dropped from EFP unique -- formidable froob end-game 2HE option if you're not into Pained Panthers and Mantis Scissors

Crypt of Home:
* Reanimator's Robe -- both to upgrade into the right-clickable bathrobe and also for further upgrade to Reanimated cloak of the Healer/Jester/Gladiator/Summoner/Ranger
* Dark Pistol of the Revoked -- perfectly viable off-hand pistol to use all the way to end game for froob crats
* the "Cript Collar" -- good for NCU and init buffs
* Bracer of Recondite flame -- changes all damage to fire type and buffs damage
* Nerve bundles which are NCU items for fixers. Not much NCU, but fixers don't need more NCU, but they also buff BM/MM which fixers do need
* Of course, all the end-game froob weapons: Howlet, Panthers, Chiropteras, and Blackbirds
* Hood of Wicked Inspiration which is essential NT gear
* Cerubin drops all sorts of useful goodies, but Focus Funneling helpers are really useful to tradeskillers (Gamboling Master's Wear is sorta meh for MA's -- maybe low level twink?), the spirit tech thing that is combined to make veil of the revoked, which is a really useful back item for traders and enfos

Inner Sanctum:
* Too much to list here, but there are end-game items for just about every profession in here.

Some of this stuff can be bought from other players, but much of it is nodrop. Other items can be obtained in end-game raids, but they're much easier to obtain from the dungeons. Most places you can manage to reenter even when you are well above the intended level of the dungeon, but a few you can't (most notably Biomare). I made the mistake of skipping some of these places on my first couple of alts, but even though dungeons are exactly as annoying as you describe, I put trips through each of these dungeons on my "to do" list for every new alt (especially Foreman's for the collar). Just don't want you to miss out on this stuff. There's usually no rollable equivalent.

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Re: Totw sucks now.

Post by ironox » Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:50 am

Experiences in TotW do vary a lot, depending on who else is there. What I have found, over time, is that the easiest place to team is the subway, next easiest is TotW, next is Foremans. PUG teaming in everything after that is iffy at best. Time of day matters, but what matters most is the willingness to send invites to other players. And the respawns are fast enough that even if there are a few higher level teams about, they can't be everywhere at once. However, hanging at TotW does require a rather philosophical attitude about reclaim - it's not known as the Temple of Train Wrecks for nothing. Llie's humorous guide insert does accurately reflect a certain proportion of the players. But certainly not all of them.
Jennydoit ("Building in your imagination") Lvl 200 TS'ing Eng
Sleipnirfast ("Think of it as a proactive acquisitions strategy") Lvl 195 Fixer
Tradingup ("Oooh, that shotgun's even BIGGER!") Lvl 180 Trader
Sgtfiery ("Reach out and torch someone") Lvl 173 ICSF Soldier
Cthulhulives ("Not your TOTW Cultist. Ia! Ia! Cthulhu ftaghn") Lvl 153 MP
Bandagebabe ("Fine Pharmaceuticals at unreasonable prices") Lvl 158 Doctor
Stupididea ("Party time! Have a blast.") Lvl 162 Shotgun NT
Notthedroid ("Don't worry, I have your back!" [In my crosshairs]) Lvl 132 Agent
Selar ("Really, I'm just a big pussycat") Lvl 156 melee Advy
Sharpanswer ("Have a heart - I seem to have picked up some extras") Lvl 104 Piercing Enfo
Remfbypref ("Go! Go! Go! I'll assess the situation as soon as I finish my coffee") Lvl 105 Crat
Abbienormal ("No Igor, the OTHER subject!") Lvl 100 Eng (Semi-permanent resident in CoH)
And about 2 dozen more alts waiting for their shot at the big time

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Re: Totw sucks now.

Post by SuEl » Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:19 am

I've solo'ed this dungeon on several occasions. You are right about the gear hogs. They will jump you at every chance. Still, it's been a blast for my lower levels :)

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