Piercing Trader

WeeScotsman
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Piercing Trader

Post by WeeScotsman » Sat Oct 18, 2008 6:28 pm

First of all I`d like to say hi and have finally registered. Having used Aofroobs for over a year, I`d like to say keep up the good work.

Anyway...the title says it all. Why? Having been inspired by Hansoos piercing doc (of which i made one..."rocks") and his thread on nano delta....it just felt like an awesome combination. The clusters for piercing have no conflict with nano skills (apart from a BM in the waist and which should be covered by drains). Nano delta cluster stuff also can be achieved fairly painlessly (BM again in the chest ...and the big one PM faded in the ear). However once cruising on NE drains ...these shouldn`t be big problems.

Ql200 tango dirks will OD a maw of the abyss (i think) and the slayerdriod crystal claws will really throw the fox amongst the pigeons. With a nano delta setup improved health plunder can be spammed and used like a special (no need to keep throwing in an enforced bankruptcy)

Of course the big problems are 1) multi melee 2) squishyness (until evades and heals kick in) 3) Finding a trader to improve your dirks 4) You`re gonna be a little tight on IP to start with :)

Now I hear the Are you crazy?? Throwing away your roots. Well not really....one can still root and drain bosses...and then go in for the kill, and we all know how easy and annoying it is to break a root using root and shoot. Roots in team missions forget it. Area roots...used for escape anyway.

Anyway Froob Nanomage PvM piercing trader currently 47.

See any holes ? :)

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Post by flyingengi » Sat Oct 18, 2008 7:09 pm

already did it with a trader up to lvl60...could od alot of stuff...just got bored.
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Post by Madballista » Sat Oct 18, 2008 7:29 pm

Just a question,

Has anyone ever done this to high levels, or does the effectiveness drop out after like TL3?
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Post by Nymex » Sat Oct 18, 2008 7:47 pm

You are most certainly not crazy :) I have a piercing trader as well, now level 114, and I can honestly say he is the most fun toon I have ever played. I had a shotgun trader once, and inspired as you were by Hahnsoo's piercing doctor thread, I decided to roll a new trader, using piercing from the get go. And it's been a blast ever since.

While yes, you do in a way discard roots, a typically essential portion of the trader toolset, in all technicality you just find yourself using your roots differently. I carry around battle-prepared health and nano labs, if I come across a boss that's giving me grief, I'll root it. If it's melee I'll step out of it's attack range and patch myself up; if ranged find a corner or pillar out of line of sight and patch myself up. Aside from bosses, all other mobs you'll find CALMS become your best friend. Something giving you a lickin' too hard? Calm that sucker and recoup your nano and health. The essential trader tools are still used with a piercing setup.

The damage is fast and furious. My piercer is constantly sucking down crat coffee and lights up a lower end Flurry of Blows every time it's available for a great increase in crit percentage for a few seconds. I slapped on a QL200 Hardcore CPU and Compiler as soon as I could to let those drains fly faster and eat less nano. Drains allow for higher quality blades to be put on sooner, so damage is impressive early on. ToTW was a cakewalk, easily soloing everything but the big three. Foreman's was a breeze, constantly playing tank and crowd control at bloaters. Now he's in that borg stage of life, and it takes a well-played enf who knows what he's doing to keep the agg off of him. I enjoy the multi-tasking to no end, draining, healing, calming adds, all while slashing an enemy apart.. it's insanely fun!

As fun as it is, and as great as I probably make it sound, there are drawbacks. Multi-melee drives you insane to no end. At 114 he's holding a QL200 ITD with a QL151 one. It does the job very well, but the damage difference between the two hits is very noticeable. ITD's also have the problem with landing damage all over the place, but what makes up for that is the very quick 1/1 speed. IP spending is enough to make your brain bleed at times, and the route you take with it has to sort of be decided on your personal style.. something has to slack if you want to maintain good damage.. in my case it's healing, enough to get by but not enough to remain comfortable at times. Still a fair bit off of casting the top hagglers and health plunders while drains and calms are the best they're going to get, ever (okay well still a smidge off from Nanite drains but a simple implant boost will rectify that once I decide to unlazy myself). Also am just beginning to use the first few AC drains. I think the biggest mistake I made was rolling him atrox. While he has the health to withstand quite a bit nanopool runs dry rather quickly.. and this very fact has been entertaining the idea of re-creating the piercing trader as another breed.. likely Opifex or Solitus. I just don't see nanomage being able to hold up well enough the way I play this kind of toon.

How well piercing will do in the long run is still a mystery to me. A lot of people say the trader's awesomeness fades the closer you dig through to TL5, I honestly would hope this is not the case. ITD's don't hold out forever due to low minimum damage, switching to Slayerdroid Crystal Claw or quite possibly Newland Fish Knives somewhere near the cusp of TL5 is definitely looking like the choice to go due to starting to do the high RK mish teams.

But so far, it's been a great idea, and totally fun, and that's what I play games for, no matter what the nay-sayers might say. In some ways I feel it's even more hectic than a shotgun trader's life due to being right up in the front-lines of combat, but I love the in-your-face madness to no end.

In any case, I hope what I've said encourages you to push on with your choice of a piercing trader, and perhaps others will give it a go as well.. it's nice to know I'm not the only nut out there who's giving this idea a try :wink:
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Post by WeeScotsman » Sun Oct 19, 2008 6:26 am

Thanks for the replies. And after reading your post Nymex I am inspired to keep going.

Although a trox trader can get the piercing implants in early..i really feel that multi melee is the bottle neck. So rather than going for the short term wtfpwn at lvl60, I am thinking long term.... and that all elusive nanodelta 2s tick...that is only available to nanomage froobs (correct me if I`m wrong). Let`s face it nano to a trader is like whisky to the scots :)

Am I going to get a rude awakening at lvl 170/180 is my only worry.

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Post by flyingengi » Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:54 am

Your biggest problem will be that around 130ish you will probably have your top weapons on....

Unless the upgraded froob versions of the Inamorata Rapier is any good...havn't checked it out yet tho. Anybody know what it's called?

Edit: found out that the omni version is called Spike of Menace and has a higher min damage and lower max... Might be nice to dual it with SCC for some higher MIN damage. Up to you tho :P
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Post by Tehsummoner » Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:46 am

Only one problem tho. Each proffesion has it's own TS weapon, and this Spike of Menace you speak of it's shade's.
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Post by WeeScotsman » Sun Oct 19, 2008 11:14 am

Scc, dual wielded have got to be better than the maw of the abyss and almost comparable to the ql250 shotgun of security and if you can get them on earlier all the better :) no?

I think the lower min damage isn`t so much of an issue...only Rk use (someone will probably tell me I`m wrong here) in which case there is always the good old Newland fish knives for a bit better min.

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Post by Vabla » Sun Oct 19, 2008 11:59 am

WeeScotsman wrote:I think the lower min damage isn`t so much of an issue...only Rk use (someone will probably tell me I`m wrong here)
It's a major issue for your DD during raids :P I'm sure you don't feel like going to a raid only to be hitting for 100 damage per hit hehe.
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Post by WeeScotsman » Sun Oct 19, 2008 2:00 pm

I gotcha :) Does that mean that the turnspirit shotguns are worthless on raids too? and the only root for trader lies the Maw ^^, please tell me it isn`t so hehe

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Post by flyingengi » Sun Oct 19, 2008 5:36 pm

Play what you want to play and don't listen to anybody else, that's how you have fun in a game:D
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Post by Jondera1 » Sun Oct 19, 2008 7:28 pm

Well, you piqued my interest, so I went and did an Auno search for froob trader-friendly piercing weapons...

There's a lot of garbage, but I sorted a few interesting ones out of the mix. The Improved Hacked Medi-Blade has some rather steep reqs, but decent damage and some nice buffs (including an on-hit heal effect). The Spear of Forbidden Ceremonies has the highest max damage of all the weapons (discounting GM-only ones, of course), but a rather low min damage, and a lot of req. skills. The Str/Sta buffs are rather nice, though. Of the various piercing weapons that were given upgrades (using the _____ weapons upgrade kits) in AI, the only one that looks reasonable is the nightspear - constant damage with a fairly nice crit, and a HP buff, with reqs lower than the medi-blade.

Now... I don't actually know if any of these are in-game or not... and I'm pretty sure that the nightspear only goes up to QL 200 (since that's as high as un-improved nightspears go)... but if anyone else knows where one might find where the medi-blade drops, or how to aquire the spear, it wouldn't make a half-bad endgame froob piercer.

EDIT: It seems that the medi-blade is crafted, and only comes in QL 300. I'll do some looking around for the specifics on the process. In addition, the spear drops from bosses in Inferno, usually around QL 260ish, apparently. That would be a bit tricky to get on...

EDIT 2: All right, got the answer on the Medi-blade. A recent patch added a batch of Escaped Prisoners around RK (lvl 215 non-aggressive mobs hanging around various parts of Milky Way). They drop, among other things, Hacked Medi-blades and Crude Upgrade Kits. It's a simple 1+1 TS process, but unfortunately, this process requires 1.5k Weapon Smithing, 2.7k Mechanical Engineering and 2.7k Electrical Engineering skill.

Good luck.

EDIT 3: A little bit more checking determines that the Nightspear is also a TS-only weapon. Look here for the instructions on how to build a higher-QL one, then use this process to upgrade to the Nightspear-870.
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Post by Nymex » Sun Oct 19, 2008 7:59 pm

The improved hacked medi-blade's piercing requirement is insanely steep, and while I only see a trader being able to put it on.. I long dismissed that as an endgame option due to the insane requirements designed really for shades. Perhaps with expansions it could be done, even with just LE/AI and no SL at 200. But personally 2 days after those were patched in I decided against even attempting the medi-blade as a froob.

The Spear of Forbidden Ceremonies (SoFC) is definitely an option, it was suggested to me by Patriots when I was levelling my piercing trader in Foreman's with him on his agent. The main problem is, all people I talk to say that QL260 is the lowest quality you will ever find. Whether this is true or not I don't know, but it's what I've been basing work in an emulator around on a 200 froob trader trying to wield one (whether or not this would be worth the trouble I don't know.. most likely not.. but it would be cool as hell to be able to pull it off).

I'm hoping that this Halloween brings the Lya's gear back to Rubi-Ka again. I've rolled a new piercing trader as an opifex, atrox was good but I feel Opifex with it's ample agility/sense will have an easier time equipping the items required to make an SoFC possible. Without some of the Lya's items I fear it will be extremely hard to pull it off.

The upgraded Nightspear is most certainly a good option, probably more effective and useful than an SoFC.. but I like to set my dreams big.. and the SoFC is in my opinion one of the cooler looking weapons in the game :wink:
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Post by flyingengi » Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:18 pm

Well, from using auno's damage calc....dual SCC's will od a ql300 SoFC based on 800 init, 2k AC's, 1200 AR. I got 9900 damage for SCC's and 9090 for SoFC over 10 seconds.
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Post by BigMx » Mon Oct 20, 2008 4:09 am

flyingengi wrote:Well, from using auno's damage calc....dual SCC's will od a ql300 SoFC based on 800 init, 2k AC's, 1200 AR. I got 9900 damage for SCC's and 9090 for SoFC over 10 seconds.
What's SCC? Do they both have the same damage type? Because if they do different types of damage, then that could play a role in the SCC having it's damage reduced in combat more than SoFC or vice versa....I think people always forget that little tidbit when using those damage calculators....should try to factor in the different AC's because at least normal mobs don't seem to have equal AC's across the board and -1000 damage on one type and -500 on another type of damage changes the dynamics of damage over long periods of time. In general the longer a fight, the more and more min damage and faster attack wins out over higher damage slower attack.

Hi damage is akin to something like a heavy tank....when it hits, it obliterates it's target....but if it can't hit it's target directly, it does much less effective damage...maybe concussion damage at worst.

low damage is akin to a machine gun....it does small damage with minimal hits but can sustain such a high rate of fire, you'll hit your target more often with more bullets.

So just looking at overall highest damage doesn't always tell the story about weapons...it depends on if your fighting targets with high HP and HI AC's to your damage type or not. If your target resist your damage type 50% more than another damage type and it's HP's is twice as High as other mobs your weapon is greatly effective against, then you may be better off using a different weapon.

One of the best test you can do is fighting dyna's and switch weapon damage type while fighting them....you will see a big difference whether you use radiation, chemical, project, melee or energy.....it all depends on what type of mob it is and what it's actual defenses are....

Just saying, generic AC assumptions don't tell the whole story....which is why I just leave the AC option at zero. That way you get to the raw damage and it's easier to assess what weapon can do what....if you use a AC value that's too high for one weapon and not for another when comparing two weapons, you may in fact be reducing the damage of one weapon much more than it actually gets reduced in game verse different targets....that can throw off the damage greatly if two weapons seem close in damage.

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